In Boom, In Mast or neither

[SeanRW]

I was hoping to begin a little discussion on the benefits / drawbacks of in-boom, in-mast systems versus a standard rig from the perspective of single handling or couples cruising.

Let us all know your thoughts and experiences with these different systems, specifically and features that you found useful or irritating. Were there any saftey concerns that mitigated one system over another. What about maintenance and reliability ?

Lots of people out there have little or no experience with these different systems and YOUR input might help them make a better informed decision.

[The Quiet Assassin]

I would not have in mast reefing. I was in Bequia when a Beneteau 51 Moorings charter boat came in with the main up and the in mast furler jammed with half a turn rolled in. The christmas winds were blowing, 20 to 30 knots with swirling gusts coming from all directions. What happened next?

First they got the anchor down and the headsail furled. Then they winched hammered pulled pushed and prayed over the in mast furling gear but to no avail. In the meantime the boat was sailing round its anchor causing a couple of nearby boats to up anchor and head for a safer corner of Elizabeth harbour.

Several people dinghied over to offer help advice but nothing worked.

Finally someone got pulled up the mast with a kitchen knife and hacked through the sail by the mast.

[SeanRW]

Yikes !!

That doesn't sound like a lot of fun. Scrambling up a 70+ foot mast in gusting winds while playing gotcha with a sputtering main that's locked in place and your yacht's twirling at anchor.

Now I know that failures of this type are rare indeed and it may have been caused by late or hurried sail handling but still. I guess the crew were wishing they had the traditional rig.

[The Quiet Assassin]

It defintely was not much fun for the crew but it was great theatre for the rest of the anchorage.

[jlhiggs]

I am not a fan of in mast furling. I was aboard one boat that jammed and it took us a good thirty minutes to free it. Good thing a squall wasn't coming. Did a Hunter in the BVI with one and when reefed, which we did every day, the sail shape was horrible and upwind performance was terrible.

[Auspicious]

I have sailed with in-mast, in-boom, and conventional mains. The conventional main is my choice without any question. When the day comes that managing it is too hard I'll fit an electric winch on the mast.

[Tetra]

I was on a Hunter 380 out of Corpus Christi last week and it had in-mast furling. I can understand the perceived benefits, but it's not for me. It got twisted and stuck on a windy morning and it took us 20 minutes to get it (mostly) fixed. Luckily, we were still at dock and able to work on it. But if we'd been underway or--even worse--offshore, it would have been an Asian Firedrill.

Keep the furling headsail and go conventional main. That's my $.02.

[Brent Swain]

With proper reef penants in a traditional slab reefing system,I can see no logic in either in mast or in boom systems . It takes me under a minute to reef the main, and the system is simple and trouble free .I've been single handing for nearly 40 years and 9 pacific crossings . So why complicate things at great expense and no benefit?
Brent

[adrianmoss]

I was hoping to begin a little discussion on the benefits / drawbacks of in-boom, in-mast systems versus a standard rig from the perspective of single handling or couples cruising.

Let us all know your thoughts and experiences with these different systems, specifically and features that you found useful or irritating. Were there any saftey concerns that mitigated one system over another. What about maintenance and reliability ?

Lots of people out there have little or no experience with these different systems and YOUR input might help them make a better informed decision.


Hi

There are too mny issues with in mast or in boom reefing to make it a really good option

1. Unless you have battens that are in line with the mast for in mast reefing or in line with the boom for in boom reefing you can not have battens! This leeds to a very poor set of the sail.

2. The more electronics people put on boats the more to go wrong

3. What is wrong with winching the sail up? I sail a 36 cruiser racer single handed and have no real problems providing the winch is servciced and geared

[lobodoug]

I know at least one couple who circumnavigated with in-mast furling, and liked it, but then, a tradewind circumnavigation is primarily downwind, and they admitted they often flew a headsail only, or a heavily reefed main. Sail shape downwind is far less critical. My feeling is, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I've never had any trouble with a PROPERLY SET UP traditional main with a good jiffy reefing system, so that is what I stick with. I have not circumnavigated, but have done 4 trans-Atlantic passages, on 3 different boats.

[jps]

Over many years of offshore sailing, in two different Force 10 storms in the Gulf, Paloma has been knocked down to sails in the water - when she rounded up into the wind, it was bad enough with a conventional main, I cannot imagine the problems we would have had with an in-boom or in-mast sail.

[SeanRW]

It seems that a lot of the manufacturers that I've looked at in the last 12 months or so are including in-mast as a standard feature. Now I recognize that they may be including this in order to make sailing easier for the less nimble or less experienced, and this may be attracting buyers of ever larger vessels because they're becoming easier to handle.

But the fundemental question stands. Would you be happy to have such a system on your vessel ? Obviously, cost can be an issue, not to mention the reliability / murphy law factor. But with a working in-mast/in-boom system, even the less brawny sailor can manage some of the rigs out there with a push of a button.

Case in point, Yaghan which has completed a 2 handed circumnavigation. 62ft of boat dipping down to the Antarctic with just hubby & wife. Now to me that speaks volumes about the reliability of the rig (and the sailors).

[Juan]

We fitted our new Southerly 42RS with a Shaefer boom two years ago and sailed 10K miles from Portsmouth, UK to Portsmouth, NH, double handed with my wife. The boom has not only added safety but also afforded my wife the ability to raise, lower, and reef the mainsail on her own while I take a nap, from the cockpit.
It improved safety because this boom can be reefed sailing downwind and prevents the need to head up into following seas to put in a reef. This alone makes it worth it in my view. Sure, you can do this with an in mast furling system if you don't mind the shape of the sail. I have tested vertical battens but the shape is still awfull.

[millerman40]

I am not a fan of in mast furling. I was aboard one boat that jammed and it took us a good thirty minutes to free it. Good thing a squall wasn't coming. Did a Hunter in the BVI with one and when reefed, which we did every day, the sail shape was horrible and upwind performance was terrible.

I agree, I was in the BVI's on a 43ft Jenneau and it constantly jammed when we were bringing in the main. I would not have one until they can guarantee me that I would not ever have a jam. It is way too risky when you are dealing with Mother Nature. And the sailing performance was horrible.

[niccol]

Just to add another voice to the arguement. Avoid in boom and in mast at all costs. Running a charter fleet I saw what they can do. We had more torn and damaged sails than you'd believe. And you could hardly blame the customers. Getting an in mast main to roll away nicely is possible - if there is no wind and you are in no hurry. Then you can spend time adjusting the angle of the outhaul, edging in and out, and getting it away. Any serious wind you are in trouble particularly as the sail gets older. What kind of system is that? It works when it isn't dangerous but doesn't work when it is dangerous.

[Osiris]

Why on earth would you climb a mast and "hack" at the sail with a knife? Just disconnect the outhaul from the sail and wrap the sail around the mast. Or pull it down and tie the clew to the foot of the mast and used "sail ties" to pull the sail material to the mast as you would when dropping an old fashioned sail and boom rig. Or take the sail all the way out and release the halyard. Mainsails are rather expensive and slicing and dicing one, when alternatives are available is a heavy hit to the wallet.
In mast furling is probably the most popular system for cruisers and "single-handers." The system has been around long enough for the "bugs" to be worked out. However, they do require periodic maintenance and inspection. Frayed or ripped sails will prevent furling. Too little halyard tension will allow the sail to pucker and not roll up. Lubrication of the bearings and sheaves for the control lines is necessary. Just like any other part of a boat, you need to plan what to do in advance if a problem occurs.

[philiprmcgovern]

Good point about dousing, rather than hacking up, the mainsail! Of course, that Elizabeth Harbour crowd can get a little carried away at times.

Our PDQ 36 has in-mast furling and electric winches and we LOVE them. In nearly three years, we have had no problems with them whatsoever. Could something go wrong? Sure. Are we willing to take that risk? Sure.

YMMV.

Phil McGovern
s/v Sunshine

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[bvimatelot]

Why on earth would you climb a mast and "hack" at the sail with a knife? Just disconnect the outhaul from the sail and wrap the sail around the mast. Or pull it down and tie the clew to the foot of the mast and used "sail ties" to pull the sail material to the mast as you would when dropping an old fashioned sail and boom rig. Or take the sail all the way out and release the halyard. Mainsails are rather expensive and slicing and dicing one, when alternatives are available is a heavy hit to the wallet.
In mast furling is probably the most popular system for cruisers and "single-handers." The system has been around long enough for the "bugs" to be worked out. However, they do require periodic maintenance and inspection. Frayed or ripped sails will prevent furling. Too little halyard tension will allow the sail to pucker and not roll up. Lubrication of the bearings and sheaves for the control lines is necessary. Just like any other part of a boat, you need to plan what to do in advance if a problem occurs.

Its not always (in fact, hardly ever!) possible to wrap a main successfully - especially as in the scenario posted about the Beneteau in Bequia, you can bet that it was a bareboat charter with "cheque-book sailors"! Completely unrolling then dropping the sail is the way to go. Then of course, you have to suffer the incredible noise of the untensioned extrusion banging inside the mast!

I ran a bareboat fleet in BVI for many years and the only sail problems my guests ever had were with in-mast furling systems! In spite of extensive hand-over briefings and demonstrations, even experienced sailors got it wrong. Have the bugs been worked out? I doubt it really. There aint a huge amount of de-bugging to be done: maybe the bearings have been improved somewhat but that's about all. You are never going to get away from the problem of not having battens and so, as your sail ages, its shape becomes less and less efficient.

However: The main point about traditional reefing is that not only are you reducing sail area, you are also bringing the weight down: quite desirable in a blow!

So, although I do deliver 'em, I far prefer slab reefing and lazy jacks. On long passages, to preserve your main, you should however, run your lazy jacks back to the mast to prevent chafe against the sail.

best to all, Tony

[SeanRW]

One consistent "gripe" I've read here is that the in-mast furling systems leave something to be desired in terms of sail shape (lack of battens) but isn't this addressed by in-boom systems where battens are used ?

Having never used either system, I would think that the mechanism in an in-boom furler could be fouled by the battens themselves if you're not pointed into the wind keeping the sail flat.

As for dropping an in-boom sail in the event of a "whoopsie moment", just release the halyard and you have a traditional acting main that you've just gotta tie off to the boom. Or am I missing something obvious ?

Lastly, it seems to me that either furling system has the potential benefit of protecting your sail from the sun & elements when it's furled.

[bvimatelot]

Of the furling options, I have to agree that boom furling has got to be better than in mast. Having said that - I've only used them many, many years ago on the Nic 55s out of JSSC. It was quite normal to put 12 rolls in the main which involved going up to the front of the mast and cranking a very stiff winch handle for 48 revolutions! Tony